@O B S E R V E R he literally gave you a link citing the Church teaching that St. Athanasius was not excommunicated. Your source of the Church's teaching is michael davies or lefebvre probably, he gave you quotes such as:

Pope Pius IX, Quartus Supra (# 16), January 6, 1873, On False Accusations:
“And previously the Arians falsely accused Liberius, also Our predecessor, to the Emperor Constantine, because Liberius refused to condemn St. Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, and refused to support their heresy.”

Among others, of course. St. Athanasius never once says in his many writings that he was excommunicated. Even if it were true that a true Pope could be a heretic, that wouldn't help your recognise and resist position, it would just render Catholicism false (which of course isn't the case).

I used to basically be a sede. But upon inspection, all you get are responses like "ThAt WaS JuSt MadE Up!"

It happened in the 300s, so youre saying the Church allowed a lie to perpetuate and be taught for near 1200 years??? This is absurd.

But the sede MUST at all costs "square the circle" because every where you look you find human failings within Holy Mother Church. But the Americanist sede HAS to double down to ensure his protestant-minded position is secure at all costs. Its thread pulling.

@Zettaitekikibou So you basically are disagreeing with the Church that Pope Liberius excommunicated St. Athanasius? I mean this is Church teaching since well before Vatican II even happened...Once again sede's are just totally hurting their own argument.

Any claim that a real pope in the past practiced heresy is a lie made up by protestants or atheists.

Those are just like the claims that the Inquisition was evil. There's no reason to believe in those defamatory accusations.

It's disgusting to claim to be Catholic while spreading those lies, defaming the popes, as a desperate means to try to justify one's idea that someone who is clearly a leftist degenerate, and not Catholic at all, can still be a pope, no matter how much he may prove over and over again to be preaching against the Catholic Doctrine.

https://vaticancatholic.com/pope-liberius-arians/


FSSPX is wrong.

FSSPX right as always

He also signed on the excommunication of St. Athanasius as well.

@Zettaitekikibou Pope Liberius signed the semi-arian creed.

The truth cannot be debunked. Recognizing that a heretic cannot be a pope has nothing to do with protestantism; It's the true Catholic position.

The followers of the Vatican II sect are the ones who are protestants, since they are rejecting the infallible teachings of the real popes that are against the false teachings of the heretical leaders of the Vatican II sect.

Bergoglio even believed in evolutionism, protested against the Latin mass, and participated in pagan rituals, and his successor now is against death penalty for criminals, blatantly protesting against the real popes in the past who supported death penalty for criminals. That's protestantism.

@O B S E R V E R isn't a true Catholic... She's trolling. DM for proof. I was in her Discord.

I have already thoroughly debunked sede. Pretty easily as well.

@Pastor Aeternus Sede is an American trend because its just protestantism.

Sign for Pedro Sanchez's resignation in Spain. Let's not allow a dictatorship in a European country.
https://www.citizengo.org/hazteoir/pt/14002--Moci%C3%B3n-de-censura-a-S%C3%A1nchez-YA-y-a-elecciones-cuanto-antes-?utm_medium=shared&utm_campaign=typage&utm_source=fb&_ref=146692624

Commemorating the Christian victory against wicked filthy muhammadans at the Battle of Lepanto on October 7, 1571.

Pope St. Pius V realized that the Holy League needed great spiritual assistance, so he asked the Holy League, as well as all of the faithful, to pray the Rosary, asking Our Lady’s intercession for a victory in the upcoming battle. The evening before the famous battle, the sailors prayed the Rosary on their knees.

Due to the Holy League’s victory against the Ottoman Empire in the Battle of Lepanto, the Turks did not advance into Europe. Many historians have said that this was one of the most significant battles in history.

Glory to God for this win. Let's all pray the Rosary for the final destruction of this barbaric cult of the devil called islam.

@Apitsolen † Jesus is Lord

It is probable that the Novus Ordo Missae is valid if it preserves the proper form and matter and is celebrated ad orientem in Latin, as prescribed in the Missale Romanum and the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani. In fact, Pope Innocent XI, Decree of the Holy Office, March 4, 1679, even condemns the idea that Catholics can receive "probable" sacraments.

Pastor Aeternus,

Wait-wait,
"for you and for all unto the remission of sins" was again corrected around 2011 to original:
"for you and for many (pro multis) unto the remission of sins".

So, if "for all" made the Eucharist invalid, and it was later corrected to original "for many", is it valid now?

The words “for you and for many unto the remission of sins” have been changed to for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven. The word “many” has been removed and replaced with the word “all.” This huge change invalidates all the New Masses. First, the word many was used by Jesus to institute the sacrament of the Eucharist, as we see in Matthew 26:28: “For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.” The words used by Our Lord, “for many unto remission of sins,” represent the efficacy of the blood that Jesus shed. Jesus’s blood is effective for the salvation of many, not all men. In the process of explaining this, The Catechism of the Council of Trent specifically states that Our Lord did not mean “all” and therefore didn’t say it!

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441: “…the holy Roman Church, relying on the teaching and authority of the apostles Peter and Paul… uses this form of words in the consecration of the Lord's Body: FOR THIS IS MY BODY. And of His blood: FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL TESTAMENT: THE MYSTERY OF FAITH, WHICH SHALL BE SHED FOR YOU AND FOR MANY UNTO THE REMISSION OF SINS."

A sacrament is said to be valid if it takes place. The Sacrament of the Eucharist is valid if the bread and wine become the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. In order for any sacrament to be valid, matter, form, minister and intention must be present.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1439: "All these sacraments are made up of three elements: namely, things as the matter, words as the form, and the person of the minister who confers the sacrament with the intention of doing what the Church does. If any of these is lacking, the sacrament is not effected."

The problem with the validity of the New Mass comes with the form, those words necessary to confect the Sacrament of the Eucharist. The form necessary to confect the Eucharist in the Roman Rite was declared by Pope Eugene IV at the Council of Florence.

@Apitsolen † Jesus is Lord

In his famous Bull Quo Primum, Pope St. Pius V forbade changing the traditional Latin Mass.

Pope St. Pius V, Quo Primum Tempore, July 14, 1570:
“Now, therefore, in order that all everywhere may adopt and observe what has been delivered to them by the Holy Roman Church, Mother and Mistress of the other churches, it shall be unlawful henceforth and forever throughout the Christian world to sing or to read Masses according to any formula other than this Missal published by Us… Accordingly, no one whosoever is permitted to infringe or rashly contravene this notice of Our permission, statute, ordinance, command, direction, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree, and prohibition. Should any venture to do so, let him understand that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.”

Pastor Aeternus,

obviously, if you have a choice between a NO parish and SSPX, it's a no-brainer - you go to SSPX. But what if you don't have a choice, and the only parish for miles is NO? Is it better to stay at home, or go to that parish for the sacraments? Not all NO priests I've met are like James Martin. I am just asking, because I am pretty new to the Catholic faith.

People who think that the Catholic faith ceases to be practiced when there’s nowhere to attend Mass or receive sacraments on Sunday either aren’t Catholic or have an inadequate understanding of the faith. The Catholic faith is lived day in and day out. In fact, the reason so many people have followed heretical groups to their perdition is that their entire “faith” and “relationship with God” is defined by where they go on Sunday. They are purely “Sunday Catholics,” which means that they are not genuine Catholics at all.

The Church is not a building. The Church is the assembly of the faithful who profess the true Catholic faith. Therefore, even if heretics have usurped the throne of St. Peter and subjected parishes, dioceses, and archdioceses to themselves, the Church herself has not ceased to exist. She continues to live in that little flock which preserves the authentic Catholic faith — and it is precisely this flock that constitutes the Church of Christ.

We live in the age of the Great Apostasy, the scale of which is unprecedented and cannot be compared with the heresies of the first millennium. This period is closer in its nature to the times of the persecutions of the first three centuries, when Christians hid in the catacombs and were often deprived of the possibility of receiving the sacraments regularly. But the Lord did not abandon His Church, and granted His faithful sufficient grace for salvation.

@Apitsolen † Jesus is Lord

The sacraments can be celebrated only by priests who have been truly ordained according to the old (pre-conciliar) rite. Moreover, such priests must not openly profess heresy; in other words, they may only be occult heretics (haereticus occultus). One of the most important conditions is that the sacraments be celebrated strictly according to the traditional rite and that they preserve the proper form and matter, as was the case before the reforms of the antipope Paul VI. For the form and matter of the “sacraments” introduced after his reforms are doubtful and contradict the traditional teaching of the Church concerning the very nature of the sacraments.

For this reason, in the parishes of pseudo-traditionalist groups such as the SSPX, SSPV, CMRI, and others, as well as among independent priests, it is possible to receive valid sacraments, provided that authentic apostolic succession is present and the proper form and matter are strictly observed.

Pastor Aeternus,

Because, as we read in history, all the great Saints during times of major heresies within the Church - remained in the Church and fought for her. Eventually, the Church recognized those heresies, excommunicated the wolves, and recovered, continuing to exist. So why should today be any different? I just try to understand. It was prophesied that in our times, many agents of satan (freemasons, modernists, etc) would infiltrate the Church. So shouldn't we fight for our parishes and call out the modernist heretics or just stay at home?

Pastor Aeternus,

2. Sacraments are a crucial part of Christian life, where can I receive them? If even Eastern Catholics recognize the current Pope, and by Dimond's logic, that means they recognize an anti-pope and an open heretic. Therefore, they align themselves with the heretical post-Vatican 2 "anti-Church". If a Pope or priest is an open heretic, they are de facto excommunicated. So again, by the Dimond's logic, all rites are openly heretical and must therefore be, de facto, excommunicated from the true Church. Does that mean there are no valid Sacraments?

3. I don't understand the logic behind just leaving all parishes and letting satanic modernists destroy them without any resistance. It reminds me of protestant groups - if their pastor becomes corrupted, they just leave their "church" altogether and start their own basement "True Baptist Grace Church", instead of confronting the heretics and wolves.

Pastor Aeternus,

Brother, could you please explain something to me? Since I'm only a convert from Orthodoxy, maybe I just don't understand.

1. "The visible Church will indeed shrink and become small", but where is the visible Church? Is it the Dimond brothers' "Most Holy Family Monastery"? I watch them, and they basically call everyone else heretics and schismatics - all other sede groups, all trad groups, etc. So I don't know, if I live in Europe and not in Fillmore, NY, what should I do?

Many modern pseudo-Catholics, under the influence of the spirit of this world and the distorted naturalism brought by the Second Vatican Council, have come to care more about material and physical comfort than about the salvation of the soul. Yet the Lord warns: “Enter by the narrow gate… for the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few” (Matt. 7:13–14).

Thus are fulfilled the words of Christ concerning the great apostasy: “When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?” (Luke 18:8). The visible Church will indeed shrink and become small, almost imperceptible, but within it the true faith will remain, and only those who enter by the narrow gate will inherit salvation.

4) If a so-called “Catholic” family excuses itself with work and worldly cares and fails to find time to study its faith — the very faith that ought to be the chief foundation of its life — then this is the path to eternal damnation. Such a way of life shows a preference for the temporal over the eternal, for the flesh over the soul. The Catechism clearly teaches that man was created to know, love, and serve God.

Here are the words of Pope Pius XII:

Pope Pius XII, Sacro Vergente Anno (Apostolic Letter), July 7, 1952: “…just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…”

3) POPE PIUS XII CONSECRATED RUSSIA TO THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY ON JULY 7, 1952

This fact is revealed in the books promoted by “Fr.” Nicholas Gruner’s apostolate.

Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 1, p. 498: “…in 1952. On July 7 of the same year, a month after the article by Dhanis, Pope Pius XII in his apostolic letter Sacro Vergente Anno, accomplished this consecration of Russia and it alone, by name – so much for Dhanis declaring it impossible!” (Immaculate Heart Publications)

This fact can also be found in the book Fatima in Twilight:

Mark Fellows, Fatima in Twilight, p. 119: “The letter went on to request that Pius consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart. He [Pius XII] did so in a letter to all Russians (Sacro vergente anno), writing in pertinent part, ‘today we consecrate and in a most special manner entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…’” (Marmion Publications, 2003)

2) The Thuc line is valid. The priests ordained in the traditional rite of ordination by Thuc bishops must be considered validly ordained. There are no legitimate grounds upon which to question the validity. However, since almost all of even the "traditionalist" priests hold some views not consistent with Catholic teaching – such as that non-Catholics can be saved, etc. – you almost certainly cannot support the priest, though you could receive the sacraments from him without supporting him, provided he is not imposing or notorious about his heresy.

@O B S E R V E R

You are foolish and clearly demonstrate ignorance of the subject of this discussion.

1) The SSPX is a heretical pseudo-traditionalist group. It is neither sedevacantist nor truly Catholic. While formally recognizing the post-conciliar antipopes and the hierarchy of Vatican II, they at the same time refuse to remain in communion with this hierarchy, which makes them schismatics within the sect of Vatican II. Moreover, they reject the dogma Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus and profess numerous other modernist heresies, which I will not enumerate here — anyone interested can study this question for themselves.

@AdQuemIbimus But the SSPX recognizes and IS RECOGNIZED by the valid Papacy lol.

Also, Thuc's entire story is beyond dubious. "Kidnapped and forced to write an apology"?? Yikes, thats the basis for sedevacantism? Whew. Brave play.

Also, the Fatima prophecy states a POPE will consecrate Russia in communion with the bishops around the globe...Ok, so back at square one. Which sede sect will have the valid line? (Youll cope and writhe at how this is actually just protestantism 2.0)

Yeah man, that sounds EXACTLY like what God would want. Tons of confusion and inter-bickering factions? Totally Catholic. Totally visible and completely accessible for a family of 10 working 9-5. They totally have time to access the most niche parts of the internet and consume 10 hour long documentaries and ever shifting arguments to support their various factional claims. Youre right man, im convinced.

God Bless you all

First of all, the second secret of Fatima mentions bishops not priests. Also, there are still priests ordained because of Archbishop Lefebvre, Archbishop Thuc, etc. who continued the line of bishops and now ordain priests so I do not know what you are talking about.

How can a true Pope consecrate Russia as all the validly ordained priests have all died out since VATII?

Then even if yall can get a valid line, which sede sect will have the real Pope lol? Yall are just prots and disagree with each other. Actually, arent there like 10 men right now all claiming they are Pope? Why is pope michael not the real pope lol?

If you do your research, you will find that sedevacantists are all over the world. Also, it does not deny Fatima as sedevacantists do believe it is possible to have a true pope to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Sede is a thoroughly American phenomenon. It also requires that you deny Fatima.

hello to all :)


La foi catholique traditionnelle trouve toujours sa place dans notre époque moderne.

Salvete omnes! Why did I find this group only now? LOL

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/Sedevacantists

anyone else a sede?

merry christmas folks

Sancte Nicolae, ora pro nobis

Prayer intention for me, having difficulties accepting desolation and spiritual dryness, and I'm struggling to maintain Discipline in Prayer. My Name is Ryan from Sydney, I'm a Maronite Catholic. Keep me in your prayers.

Salve Maria!

The Novus Ordo is a lie!

Christ is risen from the dead, brothers! Alleluia and Happy Easter!

What exactly do yall believe? What are your arguments against Vatican II?

Greetings to all :)