I have not personally put up a Christmas tree in several years. Any ornaments I use are generally seasonal (like snowflakes, snowmen, and snowy scenes), and lately I've been meditating on the wisdom of using snowmen for decorations as I have done in the past (idolatry, anyone?). It's similar to my thoughts on Halloween, as mentioned in a different thread.

Last year I decorated our "cat tree" and attached the snowman ornaments on wire hangers that were hung from the platforms on the "tree" - just to be silly. I generally don't mess with Germanic/Russian iconography ("Santa Claus"/"Father Winter"), although I do have a dancing Santa Claus that "plays" the saxophone to the recording of "Santa Claus Is Coming to Town", simply because I played the saxophone for several years and thought it was cute.

I can live without the lights and other stuff, though. And the gift-giving as well; if I want something during the year, I get it for myself, and if I want to give a gift during the year, I don't wait until December to do it.

We don't even know for a fact that Jesus was born at this time of year, and several clues point to Him NOT being born at this time of year, mostly the shepherds being out in the fields with their flocks. I think it's more important to celebrate the death and resurrection rather than the birth.

Sorry if that seems like a "bah humbug" sort of attitude, but it just doesn't hold much importance for me and never has.

I love Christmas time although people have taken the idea of Christmas and ran off with it on there own. I like the parts of family coming together and buying gifts for each other, however I hate shopping, North Pole, Santa, and elves. I also think we should have gift giving on Christmas Eve and family gatherings leading up to it and all then reserve Christmas Day for the actual reason we all celebrating the birth of Jesus. I do love decorating for Christmas though I think it's fine and I love how everything is lit up and pretty around town, the lights and winter decorations atleast all the Santa stuff I don't like.

Originally posted by Bonez:

I was raised like most my age most likely to beleive in santa claus and the easter bunny ect ect
Later on in my life i wrote a page of thoughts pertaining to this question . and the sum of it is
how can you teach children to beleive in santa or easter bunny and then turn around and teach them about the birth of Jesus or resurection how to beleive in God why you should beleive in God in the end of it all sooner or later that kid is gonna find out santa is a fluke what do you think he is gonna think about Jesus ?? And we have to own that

I feel the same way. I am still conflicted about celebrating Christmas. I dont belive in decorating the house or putting up a tree. I do like the thought of celebrating the birth of Christ though. its just this scripture makes me wary.

Deuteronomy 12:29-32
“When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.”

I know giving a human sacrafice and putting up a pine tree are total opposites but still, it touches on my heart when I think about copying pagan practices.

Originally posted by Salutations:

Deuteronomy 12:29-32
“When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.”

I know giving a human sacrafice and putting up a pine tree are total opposites but still, it touches on my heart when I think about copying pagan practices.

That's called "conviction" . . .

I've felt that before about various things, and I always eventually follow those convictions.

I was cleaning out my email inbox of old (as of yet unread) newsletters, and ran across this from Jim Denison and thought it was apropos to the topic:

https://www.denisonforum.org/columns/cultural-commentary/beware-hipster-nativity-set/

Originally posted by DiscipleofYahweh:

I'm not personally fond of holidays anymore because of corporate showings now days.

. . .

Well said, brother.

Originally posted by bowerbank:

Originally posted by Bonez:

I was raised like most my age most likely to beleive in santa claus and the easter bunny ect ect
Later on in my life i wrote a page of thoughts pertaining to this question . and the sum of it is
how can you teach children to beleive in santa or easter bunny and then turn around and teach them about the birth of Jesus or resurection how to beleive in God why you should beleive in God in the end of it all sooner or later that kid is gonna find out santa is a fluke what do you think he is gonna think about Jesus ?? And we have to own that

just saying, Santa Claus, who is really Saint Nicholas, was a Christian who did lots of great things for God.

The modern representation of "Santa Claus" or "St. Nicholas" isn't the same as the original, and all of the stories I've found about him and his giving are labeled as "legends". In the Catholic faith, he's also the patron saint of pawnbrokers, travelers, and sailors, and one of his symbols is the three golden coins or balls you might see on the sign of some pawnbrokers. He was present at the Council of Nicaea and condemned Arianism. He was the bishop of Myra until his death around 350 AD.

In his current representation, he's a combination of Russian, Germanic, and Old English iconography. He was given his present physical form and uniform in the poem, "A Visit From St. Nicholas" by Clement Clarke Moore in 1822.

I'm sorry, but that's quite a big evolution from "a Christian who did lots of great (legendary) things for God." That shouldn't keep us from doing "great things for God", though, but I don't know if that includes putting up all the trappings of old pagan beliefs and giving each other presents for the only time that year, "in hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be near."

Just for the sake of completeness and disclosure, one of my sources is A Guide to the Saints compiled by Kristin E. White (ISBN: 0-8041-0880-3), one of the books on my shelf.

Originally posted by bowerbank:

I respect that. But I don't see the problem with celebrating Christmas with presents, etc. Just because it is a pagan tradition doesn't mean that it is still used that way. It is like the Bible story when Paul says that God is the "unkown god" to the Greeks. He tried to make it something easy for them to understand. I think that that is why we have so many pagan traditions associated with Christmas.

I don't really see the problem, except that all the underlying "celebration" takes the place of the real reason for many people to celebrate. It's a lot like the rainbow; God set it in the sky as a representation of His promise to not subject the world to judgment by flood again. Now it's being used by the LGBT as their symbol. That's a HUGE shift from original to modern meaning. Christmas has followed a HUGE shift as well.

Look up something called the Overton Window sometime. Glen Beck wrote a book about it; it's a concept of sociology (although I can't recommend Beck on his own, just that book for that subject); if I recall right there's also a decent Wikipedia article on it. We become accustomed to the abominable things over time and exposure and, in the end, come to accept them as "normal". Homosexuality is another subject that has been through that window. Smaller things like Christmas can go through that window and have the purity of meaning wrung from them.

I'm not attempting to chide you or say that "YOU'RE WRONG"; please don't view me as being combative over the issue. I'm just saying that some things that may appear harmless actually aren't and some things can actually be harmfully misleading, and we don't even realize it because we're just doing our thing like we've always done, assuming everyone else thinks the same way that we do. At least Paul told those philosophers about their "unknown god". Not all of them accepted Paul's explanation. (It's found in Acts 17:18-34.) Are we telling people about the REAL reason for the season? Or are we just celebrating the way we always have and letting other people just do their own thing? I'm no better than anyone else, and I know that I have personally been lax in talking with people about it.

A lot of the holidays that we have were local holiday seasons in various places, especially in northern Europe, that were co-opted by the RCC and "normalized" to ensure that the new baby Christians didn't wander back to their pagan beliefs. It has been said that the cross found on the flags of all the Scandinavian countries also represents the hammer of Thor, but is represented as the cross to be acceptable to the original RCC evangelists. "Hey, you can be a Christian and still observe your autumn feast! We'll just make it part of ... All Hallows' Eve! Yeah! That'll work! Oh, and Saturnalia? We'll add that to ... Christmas! Yeah! Just call it Christmas from now on!" That's also how new pagan religions like Santeria and voodoo were formed, as a syncretism between the old pagan stuff and the new shiny Christian stuff.

That's the view I have of almost all holidays (except Thanksgiving, which was purely an American Christian creation).

Originally posted by bowerbank:

Originally posted by chyatt6385:

That's the view I have of almost all holidays (except Thanksgiving, which was purely an American Christian creation).

I'm sorry, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(Canada) . :)

What are you sorry for? Canadians are allowed to thank God too :)

Pretty sure USA Thanksgiving was the first official holiday for giving thanks, however the general practice of setting aside a time for thanks is very old.

"The event that Americans commonly call the "First Thanksgiving" was celebrated by the Pilgrims after their first harvest in the New World in October 1621.[4] This feast lasted three days, and—as accounted by attendee Edward Winslow[5]—it was attended by 90 Native Americans and 53 Pilgrims.[6] The New England colonists were accustomed to regularly celebrating "thanksgivings"—days of prayer thanking God for blessings such as military victory or the end of a drought.[7]"
and
"It has been celebrated as a federal holiday every year since 1863, when, during the American Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln proclaimed a national day of "Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens," to be celebrated on the last Thursday in November.[3] Together with Christmas and the New Year, Thanksgiving is a part of the broader holiday season."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)

Clearly American Thanksgiving is the best Thanksgiving![citation needed]

Originally posted by Col. Jack O'Neill SG-1:

Clearly American Thanksgiving is the best Thanksgiving![citation needed]

Originally posted by Col. Jack O'Neill SG-1:

Originally posted by bowerbank:

I'm sorry, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(Canada) . :)

What are you sorry for? Canadians are allowed to thank God too :)

From what I've read, because they're becoming more and more liberal than we ever thought of being in the US, it makes me wonder if many of them actually do . . .

Originally posted by chyatt6385:

Originally posted by Col. Jack O'Neill SG-1:

What are you sorry for? Canadians are allowed to thank God too :)

From what I've read, because they're becoming more and more liberal than we ever thought of being in the US, it makes me wonder if many of them actually do . . .

God help us all on that front, people think Trump is gonna usher in some conservative golden age, I'm not buying it, all our nations will continue to become more Godless and radicalized to sin, making a global playground for the beast.

Originally posted by Col. Jack O'Neill SG-1:

Originally posted by chyatt6385:

From what I've read, because they're becoming more and more liberal than we ever thought of being in the US, it makes me wonder if many of them actually do . . .

God help us all on that front, people think Trump is gonna usher in some conservative golden age, I'm not buying it, all our nations will continue to become more Godless and radicalized to sin, making a global playground for the beast.

On that point, I always remind myself of what Romans 13 teaches us, that our leaders are in the position they are in through the will of God.

But yeah, I'm thinking either Trump OR Clinton were to be a tool for God's judgment.

I love almost every version of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen I've ever heard, one of my favorite Christmas songs, but I also love belting out over the original lyrics, "Remember Christ our Saviour was born ON HIS BIRTHDAY" heh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi4wkKNplRs

Originally posted by Col. Jack O'Neill SG-1:

I love almost every version of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen I've ever heard, one of my favorite Christmas songs, but I also love belting out over the original lyrics, "Remember Christ our Saviour was born ON HIS BIRTHDAY" heh :B1:

Check out this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrxWwdLtQ6k